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Hammer
Hall Of Fame
Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 1756
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 Posted: Nov 26, 2007 Post subject: |
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| haha, that's the most ridiculous pitch I've ever seen in my life! haha, great stuff. |
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marpin
Rookie
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Dec 03, 2007 Post subject: |
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I use this type of grip for these two pitches that I called sliderchange and sinkerchange
[img]http://s219.photobucket.com/albums/cc56/marpin_photo/?action=view¤t=Sinkerchange-frontalgrip.jpg[/img]
[img]http://s219.photobucket.com/albums/cc56/marpin_photo/?action=view¤t=Sinkerchange-sidegrip.jpg[/img]
[img]http://s219.photobucket.com/albums/cc56/marpin_photo/?action=view¤t=Sliderchange-sidegrip1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://s219.photobucket.com/albums/cc56/marpin_photo/?action=view¤t=Sliderchange-frontalgrip.jpg[/img]
ciao joe from rome italy |
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marpin
Rookie
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 3
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Memphis
Babe Ruth
Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Dec 19, 2007 Post subject: |
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Looking at your grip for the change-up ...
I think it would be slightly better to work your change-up off a 2-seam fastball grip. You seem to be obtaining the classic "circle change" grip off the 4-seam grip.
Ideally, you want your change-up to have a little movement. Usually, that movement is somewhat screw-ball like. The 2-seam grip facilitates the ball's natural tendency to drift in to right-handed hitters, when thrown by a right-hander.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN |
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xv84
All Star
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 880
Location: California
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| Posted: Dec 19, 2007 Post subject: |
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| Memphis wrote: |
Looking at your grip for the change-up ...
I think it would be slightly better to work your change-up off a 2-seam fastball grip. You seem to be obtaining the classic "circle change" grip off the 4-seam grip.
Ideally, you want your change-up to have a little movement. Usually, that movement is somewhat screw-ball like. The 2-seam grip facilitates the ball's natural tendency to drift in to right-handed hitters, when thrown by a right-hander.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN |
A 4-seam grip circle change works fine for Pedro Martinez and he has great screw-ball movement on it. |
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Memphis
Babe Ruth
Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Dec 20, 2007 Post subject: |
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| xv84 wrote: |
| Memphis wrote: |
Looking at your grip for the change-up ...
I think it would be slightly better to work your change-up off a 2-seam fastball grip. You seem to be obtaining the classic "circle change" grip off the 4-seam grip.
Ideally, you want your change-up to have a little movement. Usually, that movement is somewhat screw-ball like. The 2-seam grip facilitates the ball's natural tendency to drift in to right-handed hitters, when thrown by a right-hander.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN |
A 4-seam grip circle change works fine for Pedro Martinez and he has great screw-ball movement on it. |
Pedro Martinez has HUGE hands and could probably throw about any pitch with any kind of grip orientation.
A lot of big league pitchers have success doing things that are typically not taught or, worse yet, things that are specifically seen as a mechanical flaw. The same applies to hitters. Some of these guys are such great athletes that they have perfected their imperfections. They can basically make just about anything work.
They have perfected some quirk that they have done a million times with success. They make it work. Or, they have adopted some unorthodox technique to compensate for some other issue that has plagued them.
This isn't a very good example of what I'm talking about since it's such a minor issue.
Would you teach a kid to prepare to hit by assuming Craig Counsell's batting stance? Sure, it works for Craig Counsell. But I would not use that as a basis of instruction unless there was some compelling reason to do so.
Would you teach a young pitcher to wind-up like Fernando Valenzuela ...
... or to have a leg kick like Juan Marichal?
My point is that there are many things that the big leaguers do, mechanically, that you would never teach a fledgling ballplayer.
If I were to teach a young boy how to throw a circle change for the first time - I would encourage him to use the 2-seam grip as the basis. If, for some reason, he is uncomfortable with it and prefers a 4-seam grip - that would be fine. It's not that big a deal.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN
Last edited by Memphis on Feb 01, 2008; edited 1 time in total |
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dusty delso
All Star
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 991
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| Posted: Jan 31, 2008 Post subject: |
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the critical thing on any pitch is how it leaves the hand. however you hold the ball to get it to look like a fastball for the first 4 feet then has a 10 to 15 mph decrease in velocity that you can throw over the plate, do it. different guys use different techniques and grips to achieve an effective pitch when it leaves the hand.
i like to start guys throwing a straight change focusing on spinning the ball straight backwards like a fastball. easier to develop touch, fell and control. throwing a moving change up by turning the ball over is tough to do and it's easy to get discouraged. contrary to popular belief, the change is a tough second pitch to throw for a strike consistently with fastball arm speed. |
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Memphis
Babe Ruth
Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Feb 01, 2008 Post subject: |
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| dusty delso wrote: |
the critical thing on any pitch is how it leaves the hand. however you hold the ball to get it to look like a fastball for the first 4 feet then has a 10 to 15 mph decrease in velocity that you can throw over the plate, do it. different guys use different techniques and grips to achieve an effective pitch when it leaves the hand.
i like to start guys throwing a straight change focusing on spinning the ball straight backwards like a fastball. easier to develop touch, fell and control. throwing a moving change up by turning the ball over is tough to do and it's easy to get discouraged. contrary to popular belief, the change is a tough second pitch to throw for a strike consistently with fastball arm speed. |
I agree, the change-up is not an easy pitch to throw.
I have twin, 17-yr-old boys who play for their high school varsity team. They are excellent pitchers and I have worked with them ever since they were young.
When teaching the change-up, I always told them to throw it "right down the middle." Learning to throw a change-up is difficult enough ... LOCATING it is nearly impossible for the fledgling pitcher. Besides, if it's thrown correctly, the batter either will or will not be fooled by the speed. It's not likely the LOCATION is going to be the overriding factor. Besides, you want them to hit it! You want them to get out on their front foot and hit a weak grounder to the infield.
When you throw a change-up on a 2-0 count - throw it right down the friggin' middle and hope he swings at it.
One of my sons has developed quite an effective change-up. But it never really developed for my other twin. We decided to stop trying to drive a square peg in a round hole. This upcoming year will be his first year WITHOUT a change-up. It's no longer in his repertoire.
At first he felt bad about it. After all, all the other pitchers threw a change-up. Now he's OK with it.
He has a very good fastball and throws a big, overhand curve. Those have always been his two primary pitches. The change-up was his third pitch. Now he throws a splitter as the third pitch. A much better pitch for him!
Not everybody throws a change-up. Even at the MLB level, there are many pitchers who do not throw a straight change.
It's a good pitch to learn when you're young - but sooner or later you have to decide whether you "own" that pitch. One of my sons simply did not ... and now we're moving on.
David Emerling
Memphis, TN |
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Defalco32
Major League
Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 397
Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mar 19, 2008 Post subject: |
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| Would it be a good idea for new pictures to be added to the Knuckle-Curve pitch? They are the same pictures for the beginners curve, although not too much different, some people may not fully understand how to tuck your finger. |
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OffSet
Superstar
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 1297
Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
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4pie
All Star
Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 556
Location: Montréal, MTL
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| Posted: Apr 25, 2008 Post subject: |
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thats not a REAL palmball, thats more like a straight change.
a real palmball will have from 1 spin to like4 or 5 spin on its way to home plate and its tumbleing forward. its comparable to a forkball but you use your thumb and ring finger to split the ball instead of index middle finger. |
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leftypitcher934
College
Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 101
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Jun 08, 2008 Post subject: |
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| 4pie wrote: |
thats not a REAL palmball, thats more like a straight change.
a real palmball will have from 1 spin to like4 or 5 spin on its way to home plate and its tumbleing forward. its comparable to a forkball but you use your thumb and ring finger to split the ball instead of index middle finger. |
What do you mean?? I throw the palmball with the same grip except I do not split the index and pinky as much off the seams
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4 seam/ 2 seam
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