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Long Toss Distance Equivalent
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CorkyMcDoogle
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PostPosted: Mar 22, 2007    Post subject: Long Toss Distance Equivalent Reply with quote

I vaguely remember something posted a while ago that converted distanced thrown to MPH pitched. I searched but couldn't find anything...

It was something along the lines of 250ft = 85MPH, 300ft = 87 mph, 350ft = 90 MPH. I can't remember exactly.

Anyone know what I'm talking about? Is measuring that way even accurate or possible?

- Thanks
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CADad
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PostPosted: Mar 22, 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is dependent on launch angle, spin, elevation, etc. It is only a rough approximation.

The numbers I remember and that seem to correlate pretty well to my son's velocity are:
50 mph ~ 120'
60 mph ~ 170'
70 mph ~ 210'
80 mph ~ 260'
90 mph ~ 305'
100 mph ~ 360'

so 250' ~ 78mph
300' ~ 89 mph
350' ~ 97 mph, although since the drag starts going up pretty quickly in the upper 90s that's probably a bit on the optimistic side for 350'.


Last edited by CADad on Mar 23, 2007; edited 2 times in total
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sidearmer05
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PostPosted: Mar 22, 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

so would this mean that if I can throw the ball 280 ft i would be throwing in the low 80s?
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P'fessa
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PostPosted: Mar 22, 2007    Post subject: LONG THROW VS. SPEED Reply with quote

WOULD A RADAR, ARM SPEED READING AND OR THE RELEASE TIME THEN BE CALCULATED TO THE DISTANCE THROWN GIVE AN ANSWER?
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CADad
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PostPosted: Mar 23, 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

280' would be equivalent to about 84 mph. However, that depends on how efficient you are when throwing long toss and how efficient you are when throwing off the mound. There are people who can throw the ball 280' but can't break 80 off the mound while there are people who can throw 84 off the mound who can't throw the ball 280'. It is just a generalization.

P'fessa,
I'm not sure what you are asking but the velocities that I'm comparing seem to be consistent with what you'd get off a JUGS gun so I'd subtract a couple mph from the velocity if you wanted to compare it to a Stalker. For example, long tossing 260' would be equivalent to about 78 mph on a Stalker.

If you were to gun a person throwing long toss then you'd probably get those velocity readings or pretty close when they threw those distances. I've never tried that though. You'd have to get the angle right to keep from getting a cosine error due to the high trajectory when throwing long toss for maximum distance.
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P'fessa
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PostPosted: Mar 23, 2007    Post subject: LONG TOSS Reply with quote

WILL QUOTE FROM A U. OF ARIZ. STUDY "IF YOU THROW A BASEBALL 300 FEET IT MUST BE THROWN AT 90MPH, AT 322 FEET EQUATES TO 95MPH AND AT 340 FEET, 100MPH. THE OPTIMAL LAUNCH ANGLE IS 34 DEGREES WITH 1,200RPM OF BACKSPIN"
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CADad
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PostPosted: Mar 23, 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pfessa,
1. PLEASE STOP SHOUTING!

2. There have been a lot of theoretical studies. I just put one out that I had seen that seemed to work fairly well. There are a lot more people out there who can throw a ball 322' than can throw the ball 95mph and a whole lot more who can throw a ball 340' than can throw a ball 100mph so I think some of their conclusions are flawed. The drag coefficient starts to flatten out pretty quickly above 90 mph allowing the velocity squared term to dominate.
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Vash
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PostPosted: Apr 02, 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I throw long toss I throw on aline(about 4 to 8 feet high, basically eliminating arc) are these mph numbers accounting for arc?
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CADad
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PostPosted: Apr 03, 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vash,
First of all it is physically impossible to throw long toss any appreciable distance and keep the ball between 4' and 8'. Let's take 240' and an intial velocity of 80 mph. That's about 117' per second. Over 240' the ball is going to slow down by about 30 mph or 44' per second. That means the average velocity is about 95' per second so the ball is in the air for about 2.5 seconds. In 2.5 seconds assuming a whole lot of backspin, more than most people produce, the ball will accelerating down at about 16ft/second^2. Using .5 * 16 *2.5^2 we get a 50' drop over the 240'. You have to throw the ball upwards a lot and 4' to 8' just won't do it. As a simplification let's say you have to throw the ball up 25' in the air in this case.

Now let's take the 180' postured by some on this site. Starting at 117' per second (80 mph) and assuming the ball slows down about 33' per second we get an average velocity of about 100' per second. That gives us about 1.8 seconds in the air. In this case given our previous assumptions for the effect of backspin and not accounting for the fact that the spin slows down while the ball is in the air the ball drops only about 26' meaning that you have to throw it about 13' in the air. Now the reality is that most people don't get anywhere near that much backspin on the ball, nor do they get pure 12-6 spin, nor is the ball traveling on a straight line so it takes longer to get there than I've calculated. The end result is that you have to throw it even higher than I've noted. This tends to be made up for by the fact that you are releasing the ball from about 4 to 6' off the ground. There's no such thing as long toss "on a line" at 180'.

Yes, the numbers assume throwing with an initial angle upward of about 30 to 35 degrees.
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FSTBLLTHRWER
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PostPosted: Apr 10, 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well those numbers seem pretty reasonable

I usually longtoss about 250 feet, which is very close to my max distance. I throw harder than 78 tho, I peak at about 82-83. I don't think those numbers take into account how powerful you are with your lower body while pitching, but its reasonably close. And then my partner longtosses at the same distance as me, but only throws 70-73, so there are alot of factors that aren't being included.
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tonyjh34
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PostPosted: May 01, 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

its hard to get exact mph via long toss, so many factors to consider.

Throwing 200 feet on a straight line vs 200 feet with 35 degree arc, it takes more velocity to throw 200 on a straight line.

Throw with no arc and see how far you can get...if you can throw 250 with no arc you are def in the 90's, but if you have a 50 mph wind at your back you then you might be throwin low to mid 80's
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|J3|
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PostPosted: May 02, 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyjh34 wrote:
its hard to get exact mph via long toss, so many factors to consider.

Throwing 200 feet on a straight line vs 200 feet with 35 degree arc, it takes more velocity to throw 200 on a straight line.

Throw with no arc and see how far you can get...if you can throw 250 with no arc you are def in the 90's, but if you have a 50 mph wind at your back you then you might be throwin low to mid 80's


It's not meant to get exact conversions, but rather a rough estimate.

You'd be surprised how little of an impact the level of arc matters.

80 mph throw at 30-degrees: ~262'
80 mph throw at 35-degrees: ~267'
80 mph throw at 40-degrees: ~264'

As you see, throwing between a 30-40 degree angle really makes no difference. Less than 30-degrees and greater than 40-degrees and you're actually throwing on such an arc that is counterproductive to achieving max distance.

Bringing 50 mph winds and the like into the equation is kind of foolhardy when things like flat-ground vs mound and crow hop vs pitching delivery already allow for such large deviations between distance-MPH conversions.
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